For those of you who might be familiar with the material, what is the legal status of aliens born in the different nations on Earth? Would they be considered citizens of whichever country they were born in? I think I read...somewhere... that non-humans don't have the same rights as humans in the various human legal systems?

I also kind of need to know the answer to this.

[quote_post2920946 user=143497]I also kind of need to know the answer to this. [/quote_post2920946

Interesting question. If Steve chats tomorrow night, I'll try to slip this question to him.

It would probably vary by country in question, right?

The source book seems a bit sketchy on this issue because while they mention that sentient aliens, extra-dimensional entities, AIs, and the undead have only limited rights as "non-persons" under the law in the USA, they don't specifically say anything about such non-persons which are naturally born within the USA.

Beings of human stock are considered persons, specifically mentioned in the same paragraph, so it seems that this is some kind of deciding factor on whether they're considered a person under the law according to the Supreme Court. (Champions Universe 5th ed, p51)

Anyway, I know what I've just brought up has been mentioned in another thread, but I'm also curious about this because one of my characters is a lawyer, and I'm trying to read up on as much as possible in regards to Champions Law. It seems to be a situation of personhood and not necessarily Nationality Law for the USA.

Reading that over, it seems very much like if the alien is considered people by the country of their birth, then they are eligible for citizenship. That's a big iff though, and I imagine if the "non-person, with limited rights" categorisation is more popular then it is likely they'd have some sort of Space Green Card.
Since countries love assigning numbers to people, and all.

Lilt and I talked it over a bit and from what we're able to gather in short order, it seems most likely that under the law of most countries an alien, even born within an Earth nation, would at best be something akin to a stateless individual, and at worst subject to animal care & control.
Watch out, Clark Kent. Metropolis is going to have you spayed.

Okay, so I was looking into the Stateless Individual a bit more. It seems that there was a 1954 ruling by the UN which might be of some interest in this case, the 1954 Convention Relating to the Status of Stateless Persons. Go figure, such a succinct name.

Anyway, so:

Of significance, the Declaration at Article 15 affirms that

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Looking at this while also keeping in mind the Declaration of the Rights of the Child which is a set of 10 principles which brought over into UN adoption (har har) in 1959, which states something like..

"The child shall be entitled from his birth to a name and a nationality." (Principle 3)

Now, I can't find a list of countries which have signed the Rights of the Child, but for the aforementioned Convention it is held in practice within the following nations: (list quoted from wikipedia)

As of October 1 2008 there were 63 State parties to the Convention.[1]

Original Signatories: Belgium, Brazil, Colombia, Costa Rica, Denmark, Ecuador, El Salvador, France, Germany, Guatemala, Holy See, Honduras, Israel, Italy, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Philippines, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom

Others: Albania, Algeria, Antigua and Barbuda, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Barbados, Belize, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Botswana, Chad, Croatia, Czech Republic, Fiji, Finland, Greece, Guinea, Hungary, Ireland, Kiribati, Republic of Korea, Latvia, Lesotho, Liberia, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mexico, Montenegro, Romania, Rwanda, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Senegal, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Swaziland, Trinidad and Tobago, Tunisia, Uganda, Uruguay, Zambia, Zimbabwe

Also: Madagascar denounced its earlier signature, effective 2 April 1966

Note: THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE USA. Anyway, so I'd say there's a strong case for any child born in those countries. However, I'm not a lawyer, so I defer to an expert ruling on the situation. This is merely provided as a general example of potential justification.

Edit: italicized my quotations because I'm being sloppy enough about not citing consistently anyway.

So these concepts have been around for a while; I guess the real issue is whether "partial rights" extends to that. My gut tells me probably, but I'm no legalligator.

Yeah. It really seems like the issue just hinges on whether the baby is considered to be a person, and thus given the standard rights given to persons under the law. Or that's the first hurdle you'd have to deal with. Also, assuming you're in a country which has adopted the UN's laws on a) stateless individuals and b) the rights of children, THEN you have to potentially deal with whether they claim you as their own OR say that you have the nationality of your parents.

If you're a half alien, born to a human mother (or father, because hey.. the alien doesn't HAVE to use the standard channels amirite?!) then your rights would be a tad more certain I would imagine. I think even the USA would say such an individual has rights BECAUSE they're a derivative of human stock. In which case citizenship would default to the human parent's most probably.

There's always the case even in half-human babies where, with certain countries, the citizenship is required to be passed maternally or paternally. Some countries only accept you if your father was a citizen, etc, etc. So again, the country in question dictates a lot I would presume.

#2921120 @Lilt wrote:

Yeah. It really seems like the issue just hinges on whether the baby is considered to be a person, and thus given the standard rights given to persons under the law. Or that's the first hurdle you'd have to deal with. Also, assuming you're in a country which has adopted the UN's laws on a) stateless individuals and b) the rights of children, THEN you have to potentially deal with whether they claim you as their own OR say that you have the nationality of your parents.

If you're a half alien, born to a human mother (or father, because hey.. the alien doesn't HAVE to use the standard channels amirite?!) then your rights would be a tad more certain I would imagine. I think even the USA would say such an individual has rights BECAUSE they're a derivative of human stock. In which case citizenship would default to the human parent's most probably.

There's always the case even in half-human babies where, with certain countries, the citizenship is required to be passed maternally or paternally. Some countries only accept you if your father was a citizen, etc, etc. So again, the country in question dictates a lot I would presume.

Hmmm... could probably still have interesting things happen to my Half-Alien (really full alien..sorta) Canadian. "It is about time to do something about these Illegal Alien Aliens"

I just have to say that thread is full of win right now, I give you all Japanese rare cheesecake with blueberry or strawberry topping! -offers- Anyway, I was somewhat glued to this thread, as I have an alien who is here on a Diplomatic mission to Earth, he's trying to create a connection because his people do missions as many are Physicians and Scientists. He's here to collect data on Magic, Physiology (specifically Human), and just general exploration. His society is not war-like by any standard, they could be considered a planet of Salvation Army to put it simply, but without the religious aspect.

According to Steve tonight, an American born of two extraterrestrials is not a citizen, but in practise, the law will usually treat them as having the same rights as a citizen. Other countries may vary.

#2926667 Thundrax wrote:

According to Steve tonight, an American born of two extraterrestrials is not a citizen, but in practise, the law will usually treat them as having the same rights as a citizen. Other countries may vary.

Hmm... awesome, thanks Thundrax! I wonder if Canada would follow a similar pattern.

My character does have a little human in her. Was just trying to think of what sort of fallout might result from the Canadian government discovering that she is not really all that human after all. Would she possibly have to prove that she was born of a human mother? That could cause some complications since she has changed since the Qularr invasion.

Well, some stuff to think on.

#2928127 Nightstar wrote:

#2926667 Thundrax wrote:

According to Steve tonight, an American born of two extraterrestrials is not a citizen, but in practise, the law will usually treat them as having the same rights as a citizen. Other countries may vary.

Hmm... awesome, thanks Thundrax! I wonder if Canada would follow a similar pattern.

My character does have a little human in her. Was just trying to think of what sort of fallout might result from the Canadian government discovering that she is not really all that human after all. Would she possibly have to prove that she was born of a human mother? That could cause some complications since she has changed since the Qularr invasion.

Well, some stuff to think on.

I suspect one human parent would confer citizenship rights.

Given that Canada tends to be "ahead of the curve" on both social policy and immigration (at least on rights issues), I don't think it's unreasonable for Canada to have settled this issue sometime in the Chretien era when the Supreme Court of Canada was making some very liberal rulings, however if it works best for your story that you aren't recognized as such, go for it. It's a funny world and courts sometimes make strange rulings.

Craig was an MP until very recently and could hook you up with politicos and help bankroll your legal fight if need be. It's something he likes to do.

Glad this is sorted for ya! I know that in Canada and the USA, having one legal citizen as a parent should confer citizenship rights... not all countries do this though, for anyone else who was interested for other countries. Some countries go by either the mother or the father for rights, or may require that parents are legally wed for citizenship to 'transfer' through birth to the child.

Doom, for Eclipse, he was born in Brazil and it's on those UN lists for countries which've conferred rights for the otherwise stateless. I don't see why he wouldn't have citizenship in that country if it fits with your plots. Again, if it adds to RP to contest citizenship - I'd err on the side of the RP. I'm just presenting what seems feasible based on existing reality legality.

As a DM I probably would've just looked at those rulings to serve as a template for all refugee types and not just terrestrial stateless persons - but I defer to the writers for things in this venue. Anyway, I hope this adds to your RP enjoyment, in any case.

Interesting that the UK isn't on the list, either. I suppose most countries would permit some sort of work visa to nonhumans, though doubtless it'd have tighter limitations than visas for human citizens.

The UK is the last on the list of original signatories.

Hmm... under US law, having one legal citizen as a parent doesn't confer citizenship. Having two legal citizens or being born in the US on the other hand are the legal ways to be considered a natural citizen.

That's not necessarily the case, if you're the child a US citizen and are born in another country. Quoting again from a summary article on wikipedia.

A person born on or after November 14, 1986, is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

1. One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
2. The citizen parent lived at least five years in the United States before the child's birth
3. A minimum of two of these five years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

There's also other conditions listed there for those born in between the dates of 1986-1952, but I'll leave them off for sake of brevity here. Not everyone born abroad to a parent of US citizenship will have citizenship conferred upon them due to the conditions above, however it's not completely restricted.

So for the record: Small girl has no citizenship rights despite being born in America and living her entire life there. She's got all the rights of an illegal alien, I suspect?

This means that she has to play ball when someone blackmails her with the deportation of her parents, right?

#2926667 Thundrax wrote:

According to Steve tonight, an American born of two extraterrestrials is not a citizen, but in practise, the law will usually treat them as having the same rights as a citizen. Other countries may vary.

Though honestly, there is nothing stopping a jerk in sunglasses and a black suit from saying, "Play ball or we'll deport your parents into the sun."